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Where is Ray Vecchio when I need him?

Posted on 2007.07.07 at 18:59
where am I: Nowhere near Italy
How I feel about it all: cheerfulmonolingual
Soundtrack: *tries to keep "That's Amore" out of head* *fails utterly*
Tags: , ,
Hey, O Wise Friendslist, do any of you speak Italian? If so, could I get a rough translation of this article? I'll make you virtual doughboys. Don't send me to Babelfish, because I can't bear to read their translations.

Honestly, I'll try to make a real post again someday. For now, I'm off to non-LJ friend Sandra's house with my brand-y new S&A S3 DVDs. Eeeee!

P.S. peacey, I will be around later on tonight. Most likely not until after ten. *hugs*

Comments:


newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-07 19:15 (UTC) ()
Workin' on it. Will get back to you! Thanks for the excuse to brush up on the Italian, I am all kinds of rusty.
newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-07 20:04 (UTC) ()
Installment #1

The ancient Greeks taught that democracy means a government of the people. But the concept of democracy has undergone many modifications over the course of the centuries. [This next sentence I can’t make out exactly, but has something to do with] the widely varied forms of political regimes that have come about over the course of history in all corners of the world: cities, empires, municipalities, kingdoms, sovereign states, dictatorships, tyrannies. Across more or less successful “experiments,” more or less brutal, every form of power in its own way has contributed to the achievement of the actual foundation of democracy, that force which should place in the hands of the people the government of their own country: the right to vote. Today, a democratic state is in fact a state in which every citizen with the right to vote exercises his(/her) own decision-making power, choosing who will represent him(/her) in the political arena [literally, “room”].
But if the keys to this room [i.e., the political arena] should instead be assigned? If the one who wins is not really the candidate with the most votes, but simply the candidate who is “supposed” to win? If behind the success of an electoral campaign should be instead a path full of plots and deceits perpetrated in order to achieve success?
The United States, a global example of democracy from its own independence, probably remembers with regret and fear the election of 2000, in which George W. Bush defeated Al Gore by a handful of contested votes obtained in the state of Florida. The accusations, the journalistic coverage, the enquiries were numerous – but the substance did not change, and the recent history has been under the eyes of all. It is emblematic, however, that out of the USA and North America should come a massive wave of countercurrent cinema that seeks to illuminate [lit., “give protrusion to”] the obscured face of politics -- the paradoxical angle [heh, Italian pun] of the Oval Office that should not exist, and that instead nourishes itself on conspiracy and machinations in which what prevails is never the will of the people, but above all the dictate of money.
newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-07 21:05 (UTC) ()
It is out of Watergate, in which Nixon was involved in 1972, that the cinema has joined the mass media together in a relevant manner to tell the untold stories and divulge the unnamed names involved in the scandals of the White House: All the President’s Men has continued to be regarded as one of the most significant of films. A milestone of investigative journalism, the inquiry of Bob Woodward and his colleague Carl Bernstein, played onscreen by Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman, that the media really holds the supposed fourth power [“fourth power”?]
In different languages, in recent years the cinema has continued to tell an “inconvenient truth” and prognosticate likely tragic scenarios. In recounting current events, the work of Michael Moore, and in particular the success of Fahrenheit 9/11, is a clear example of how many in the USA also feel the need to expose those who act [“tornaconto” I can’t translate – something with the idea of “against”] in the name of democracy, of peace, of the people.
Detached from the reality of facts, there are also films intrigue [lit., “camouflage”] like Syriana that instead theorize a probable outcome of the degeneration of international relations between the United States and the Middle East. The actions of Intelligence are always less than completely clear, and [the rest of this sentence is pretty much unintelligible to me, which befits the subject of CIA subterfuge, I guess].
newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-07 21:58 (UTC) ()
To the documentary and the film we now add another language too: fiction. The Canadian miniseries The Trojan Horse, directed by Charles Binamé and in competition at the Rome Fiction Fest, is maybe one among the million results of the continually evolving thematic quest that scorches a lot, but that seems to be very dear to the authors of North America. On the eve of the 2008 elections, an umpteenth war for oil that involves Saudi Arabia is indicated for the US, in the effort to control a geographical area vital to the world economy [something about “stealing” and the “ever more in-the-way China”]. The president seeks a pretext for the attack, his entourage fabricates one ad hoc; but a new candidate, the independent Tom McLaughlin, has decided to avoid the conflict and with an exultant electoral cavalcade draws near to the president. But not even McLaughlin is completely “clean.” His campaign is in fact run directly by the European Secret Service, determined to put their own expansionistic designs into action, putting one of their men in the White House under the guise of the elections. In this framework to the rest of the world, the story is fragmented in such a way as to keep the tension always alive, thanks to a montage carried to alternate extremes. [This doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense to me, actually. Sorry about that.] Like a Trojan virus, McLaughlin wants to insinuate himself into the system in order to destabilize it from the inside and topple it, and he does not hesitate in the face of anything. The law for him is: there is no law, and “if no one succeeds the laws [something about “playing” or “betting” and “equal weapons”]. In a world where even the ethical options become political options, the men are [I think “spregiudicati” means something in between “conniving” and “idiotic,” but I can’t get closer than that] and calculating, while the only people that still seem able to believe in right values are the women (Helen, Tom’s wife, Mary Miller, the secretary of state Coleen Howell).
Between the one who seeks to preserve power by playing dirty and the one who seeks to conquer him by doing even worse, the message that arrives is that the system is rotten/immoral and the solutions are more rotten/immoral than the system. The Trojan horse is nothing other than an ulterior deception to destroy the state from the inside, a sick horse, guided by the obscure desire/will of spies and powerful tycoons who do not hesitate to lie, to procure for themselves proof with blackmail, forcing the inconvenient truths to silence and torturing those who, instead, are not able to speak.
Though drawn from a work of fiction, The Trojan Horse rips open unsettling [things] about a likely future and its vision is not able to remain indifferent. It is necessary to reflect on how power legitimates its own authority and on how much [of it] really works for the benefit of all. The effort to combat a plot with another plot leads to a bitter conclusion entrusted [?] to Tom’s words: “The truth, even if it should be under the eyes of everyone, at bottom is not really important to anyone.” But to honest journalism (not randomly is the protagonist a reporter), to political movies [lit., “cinema of civil commitment”], and now also to fiction, it seems rather to be most interesting.
-- finis
shayheyred
shayheyred at 2007-07-07 22:17 (UTC) ()
Brava! I was about to reach for my old Italian textbooks, but your translation is much, much better than I could have slapped together.

newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-07 23:08 (UTC) ()
Thanks! It's been about 12 years since I boned up on my Italian, but apparently despite myself, a decent amount managed to sear itself onto my brain cells when I was in college. :p
A Revolutionary Biscuit of Italy
revbiscuit at 2007-07-08 07:49 (UTC) ()
Well done! I was going to volunteer, but you've done a splendid job already. You had a few ?? along the way, and I sense you may be curious.

Ciò si è dovuto soprattutto al susseguirsi delle più svariate forme di regime politico
That was mostly due (si e' dovuto = has been due itself *g* - it's reflexive) to the various succeding? (the forms succede/follow? themselves, it's reflexive again) forms of political regimes.

Do you know, I have suddenly realised why my English construction is so unnecessarily complicated. This sort of stuff scars you for life.

The fourth power is the media. I have seen it translated as the fourth Estate before now. Incidentally, Il quarto potere is also the title for Citizen Kane, but I don't think they're talking about that here.

per il proprio tornaconto means to one's own ends. I'm struggling with the English here. Fare tornare i conti means balancing the books, look at it in that sense. Creative accounting of a moral kind, if you will.

Le azioni di Intelligence sono sempre meno chiare addirittura a chi dell’Intelligence fa parte e non c’è spazio per alcun ripensamento, per alcun valore che non sia quello del successo a ogni costo.
The actions of Intelligence are less and less clear even to those who belong (far parte) to the CIA and there's no room for any rethink, for any value that isn't that of success at all costs.
Or something. I may have made up 'rethink'.

grazie a un montaggio alternato portato all’estremo.
Alternato refers to montage here. It's probably a cinematic term. I don't know what it means, but I'd translate it as "thanks to an alternate montage taken to the extremes." Maybe that would make sense to someone who understands this stuff.

“se nessuno segue le regole si gioca sempre ad armi pari”
If no-one follows the rules, we're on an equal playing field.

Spregiudicati means uninhibited, but in a negative way. Unethical.

Hope you don't think I'm being pernickety, because I can't get over how quickly you could translate all that. I just thought you may be curious about some of the things that were puzzling you. Having said that, my English for them is probably wonky. *g* But hey, the power of LJ. Between us all we'll get there!

newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-08 10:33 (UTC) ()
Oh, wow, thank you for this reply! I'm a total language GEEK, and you're exactly right, I was curious about the parts I couldn't make sense of. I'm glad to see that several of those parts involved idioms... always tough! Reflexive and subjunctive forms were always the verbs that killed me, and alas, it seems they still do. :p But translating this was really excellent practice, and I really enjoyed it. Thanks again for clearing up my ?? places! You've given me some new vocabulary and helped me understand some tough constructions. :D
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 10:58 (UTC) ()
Jeebus, woman, how many languages DO you know? Thank you, thank you so much for doing this! You seriously rock so hard the neighbours complain. *dances you around*

Could I share this with my mailing list? I haven't even read it yet, I wanted to fangirl you first. Reading's next. *does tarantella*

I really want to learn more languages. Broken Spanish does not count as Something I Know. They're offering French and German this fall at the local community college. Hmm.
newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-08 13:05 (UTC) ()
Jeebus, woman, how many languages DO you know?
Thirteen, wow, how I need a life.

Anyhoo, you're welcome! :D Sure, totally share it -- Italian's one of the languages that I feel reasonably secure in, and revbiscuit says it's a decent rendering, so I won't be fearing that some Italian will read it and go, "WTF? Was this translated by monkeys?"

Languages = much fun! The key is finding what you're comfortable with. For myself, I can learn to read, and at least to some degree write, any language in the world, no problem, but learning to SPEAK and understand SPOKEN languages makes me really, really anxious. So I hated the German (for speakers) class I took, but really enjoyed the French (for readers) class. Also, French, like Italian, is a very user-friendly language for English speakers. Lots of cognates and logical (for English speakers) grammatical forms. Paradoxically, German is (IMO) a real beast, despite the fact that English is itself a Germannic (as opposed to, say, Romantic, like Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, etc.) language. And given your Canada fetish? I'd look into that French class, chica!
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 14:43 (UTC) ()
Oh, I love languages! I've been told I have a good ear for them. mr_t00by was once told by a native German that his accent was indistinguishable from a native speaker. So I figure if I take German he can help me. Amd I LOVE Italian.

And given your Canada fetish? I'd look into that French class, chica!

See, that's the problem. I don't want to learn Parisian French. So I have to ask the professor if he's down with the Québécois. And maybe, and I know it's a pipe dream, but maybe even teh Acadian.


newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-08 15:27 (UTC) ()
YOU HAVE OUT-LANGUAGE-GEEKED ME. Two different kinds of French you would like to know? Neither of which are the "official" French? Yes, you have out-geeked me. *prostrates self*
A Revolutionary Biscuit of Italy
revbiscuit at 2007-07-08 11:19 (UTC) ()
I'm a total language GEEK

Me too. I know exactly how you feel. ::is geeky with you::
newleaf31
newleaf31 at 2007-07-08 13:07 (UTC) ()
Gah, I love it when I meet other language geeks! Non-language-geeks just never understand. But really, they don't know what they're missing!

*joins in geeky songfest*
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 11:19 (UTC) ()

...because the only thing more exciting than Canadian politics is discussing it in Italian!

Woah, this is like, a cooperative club of interpreters translating geeky reviews of geeky political films. Geeky Canadian political films, specifically, which makes it even geekier. Because, think about it. Someone wrote an article about Canadian politics in Italian. Next up? An article about Italian politics (that Parmalat milk scandal, maybe) written in Canadian. I'll translate. My written Canadian's pretty good. ;)
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 11:20 (UTC) ()

Addendum, which is Latin and therefore kind of Italian

Oh, and thanks for all your help, dear. ♥
A Revolutionary Biscuit of Italy
revbiscuit at 2007-07-08 11:27 (UTC) ()

Re: ...because the only thing more exciting than Canadian politics is discussing it in Italian!

Yay for geeky Canadian films! You know though, it just occurred to me, any take on Italian politics would spawn something like the Lord of the Rings. *g*

::sings:: "Weee're all geeeeeks togetheeeer!" *g*
bjohan57
bjohan57 at 2007-07-08 14:17 (UTC) ()
You do know what this means though? Someone in Italy managed to follow and understand the Trojan Horse.

Does this mean that I won't need to construct an excel spreadsheet for this installment?
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 14:36 (UTC) ()
You do know what this means though? Someone in Italy managed to follow and understand the Trojan Horse.

Yes. This is a good thing. I think.

I'm going to post this to the comm as soon as I get permission to fix it up (read: combining comments).

Does this mean that I won't need to construct an excel spreadsheet for this installment?

No. You'll still want ter be doin' that, lass.
bjohan57
bjohan57 at 2007-07-08 14:38 (UTC) ()
Aye up. Could you also post it to H20_WTF if you get permission? Might be good to watch the thing with a head-start on the plot.

try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 14:43 (UTC) ()
That would be the comm in question, dahlink.
bjohan57
bjohan57 at 2007-07-08 14:44 (UTC) ()
Oops. :( I clearly suck very hard.
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 18:50 (UTC) ()
TMI, dear, TMI. *g*

I'll post when I get home from work, aye.
peacey at 2007-07-08 16:58 (UTC) ()
I'm dragging ass today and I totally blame you. 6am is no time for civilized people to go to bed. *is exhausted*
try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
primroseburrows at 2007-07-08 18:48 (UTC) ()
She blames me. Niiice. :)

I got up at ten-thirty. And I think I'm an hour ahead of you. I suck at time zones.

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